When ABM Works and When It Doesn’t with Mason Cosby, Scrappy ABM
Hear how his team generated $3M using little more than a podcast and LinkedIn—and why most companies get ABM wrong by focusing on tools instead of strategy.
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So what most outbound teams are doing right now is they look for a couple
assets on the website,
mating, and I mean that's sincerely like no shot at outbound teams, but more
often than not what
they're doing is they're taking their list and then just reaching out and
saying like, hey,
I saw these couple of cool things about you on LinkedIn. It looks like you do
some volunteering,
like good job on keeping up with an instrument. I wish I had done that. By the
way, you want to buy
our stuff and like, that's about it. I'm Jonathan Gandalf and welcome to the
Content Cocktail Hour,
powered by Audience Plus. Our mission is to shake out the deepest secrets of B2
B marketing
professionals and stir up fresh conversation. All to help you connect your
brand with the right
audience at the right time. Let's raise a glass. Welcome back to the Content
Cocktail Hour.
Jonathan Gandalf here, founder and CEO of Audience Plus. I'm thrilled to be
joined by a fellow
Indianapolis, not a native, but a fellow Indianapolis resident, I suppose we'll
call it.
Well, one of my favorite marketers, Mason Cosby, who CEO and founder of Scrappy
ABM,
Mason and I have made a habit of connecting at any B2B marketing event that's
going on in the
world and never actually connecting in person in Indianapolis. We're keeping
that tradition rolling
today by doing a podcast recording, not in person, but on video as well. So we
're going to have some
fun with today's conversation, talk all things content, all things ABM, Mason
before I ramble for
too long. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, what you're up
to at Scrappy in
your own words. Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, always thankful for the
opportunity to talk not
in person in our hometown, other than the one time we went to the local Thai
jazz bar restaurant,
which is still one of my favorite restaurants of all time. Anyway, he didn't
misspeak folks.
That is a Thai and jazz restaurant. It's a Vindaiagram that is only appropriate
here in India.
It's just amazing. Anyway, so what do we do? So we build ABM programs, but
anyway,
that is somewhat scrappy. So I talk a lot about this, but if you look up ABM,
you'll see a bunch
of things around like, buy all these different tools and technologies. And like
, they're not bad.
It's just not the right order of priorities. So I think you should build an ABM
program with
what you've got today. The reasons ABM programs fail typically aren't tooling
and technologies,
typically like internal alignment and like buy-in and the right resources from
a people perspective.
So if you can nail that first, then when you go buy technology, it'll help you
scale it. So
essentially, that's what we do is build it with your current people and
processes so that you can
actually effectively implement ABM and then scale it. So I hope that's helpful.
But as clear as mud.
Yeah, and you do great work. We've got a lot of friends of yours that are
customers and they all
senior praises. I've been fortunate to see you present at several of those
events we've crossed
paths at, a big fan of the work and kind of you sharing what you know with
everybody you know.
So excited to dig into all of that today. Mason, it is the content cocktail
hour though.
So before we do that, we always ask all of our guests, what are you enjoying
drinking nowadays?
We're so boring. So we've got a 19 month old and then we've got another on the
way. And like,
we really started to drink alone with my wife at these events where Jonathan
and I hang out.
I typically do a little fashion, but right now it's like our local grocery
store brand coffee
and water. And then I have a protein smoothie for lunch every day. So that's
what I'm drinking.
And that's it. Impressive. I like it. So our house drinks a lot of coffee as
well. For the amount
of coffee we do drink, you would think we are coffee snobs, but we are not. We
get the like
Dunkin', the like 45 ounce like Dunkin', like huge thing. And we just we drink
way too much of it.
Have you explored Frederic's coffee, which is the? I have not. It sounds fancy.
It's just a
Meyer brand coffee. That's nice. Okay. And it's very good. All right. I'll have
to check that out.
There you go. And I like these admire, not Myers as we like to call it here in
the Midwest
occasionally. I add the apostrophe S to everything. Kroger's, Myers, etc. All
right. Let's talk ABM.
I've shared this story previously with a few folks. I don't think with you
though specifically,
I started my career in B2B SaaS marketing, led marketing team. I then jumped
out of the B2B world,
started another business in the B2C world. That was like 2014 to call it like
2018.
Then I jumped back into B2B SaaS and was leading a marketing team. I kind of
inherited a marketing
team. And I'll never forget like first two or three weeks there, everybody was
talking about ABM,
ABM, ABM. I was like, I don't know what the hell that is. It was like the four
or five years that
I had missed and software was like the rise of ABM. And I was like, so finding
their colleague
on the team and I remember sitting down with her and I was ignorant enough to
ask and
invulnerable enough to ask like, Hey, what's this ABM stuff? The entire team is
talking about that.
I have no clue what it means. And you know, she explained account based
marketing and
she kind of explained it to me. And now looking back, I realized that business
was really just
referring to a gifting campaign or a gifting program. But I remember as she
explained it to me,
I was kind of like, I don't know, to me, it just sounded like good marketing.
Like it didn't sound
like anything like revolutionary. But I think as you mentioned, we have a lot
of what people were
talking about and the kind of the rise of ABM was revolving around these
technologies and
tooling that was coming to life. And they weren't inexpensive either. So the
name of your business
is literally scrappy ABM. Can you just I know you talked about that a little
bit, but can you talk
a little bit more about kind of the difference between what scrappy ABM is
versus maybe the use
of some of these six figure platforms that so many businesses do build their A
BM programs around?
Yeah. So like right now we're doing a podcast. And I don't know if you know how
much podcasts
costs won't you do? But maybe, audience, you don't. We're using squad cash
recording,
which is bundled in with Descript. Descript on their top plan is like 30 bucks
a month and it's
editing as well. You did outreach through LinkedIn or email and you used a
scheduling link that you
could do through Calendly or if you've got a HubSpot instance, like relatively
inexpensive,
you can use HubSpot's order for $240 a year. So like, not crazy. So what am I
on? The booking
around a podcast with roughly 70 to 80%, which means if you ask somebody four
out of five people
will say yes to joining your show. So if you were to build a target account
list of people,
you're like, I'd love to, you know, have them know that we exist and build a
relationship and like
forcibly have them have a conversation with me for an hour, build a podcast.
And from a hard
cost perspective, I just outlined it. It's about $57 a month, truly, like Buzz
sprout, Descript,
and then like a Canva license. Because Buzzsprout's now like 12 bucks, Canva's
about 20 bucks a month
and then Descript 30 if you go on a premium plan. So like, my bad. It's gone up
a little bit,
inflation, $70 a month. But like, that's how scrappy ABM did 3 million in sales
in 18 months.
It was like, podcast, invited people on, build a good relationship with our
target accounts.
And then just simple scripting at the end of like, hey, like, I really love the
fact that we're
still on the same page. I'm sure you're super slammed all the time because you
're the VP of
marketing at this incredible tech company. But like, if you have any friends
that like need help
because they're not as talented as you, would you be willing to send them our
way? And most of the
time, people will either send referrals, or they'll say, actually, I know how
to do it. I'm just super
slammed from a capacity perspective. Like, could you help us do it? Because I
trust you now.
That's an ABM program, because I went after a specific target account. I
created a distribution
mechanism to actually engage them. There was a clear destination for I wanted
them to go, and there
was clear tracking around that. So if you know who you're going after, why you
're reaching out,
what you're saying to them, where you're sending them to, and how you track it,
that's like, that's
a playbook. That's an ABM playbook. You can run over and over and over again.
So the idea, I just
gave an example. And I'll, for like, for everybody that's listening in, the
idea here is you don't
need tooling and technology. Like, you need a really good strategy. And if you
can answer the
questions I just outlined, you have an ABM program. The question is just now,
how do we want to
execute that within our current capabilities? That's scrappy ABM. Should every
business be running an
ABM program? Or is this something that businesses need to kind of grow into and
evolve into? Or are
they already running ABM and they just don't call it ABM? Such a great question
. And no, not every
business should be running ABM. I've actually started to talk a lot more about
all of you that
shouldn't be doing ABM because there's a lot of people that actually shouldn't.
Interesting. So for starters, and this, this will be really telling, we built
as scrappy ABM,
like our first target account list, that's like a true pure data backed target
account list
about six weeks ago. Because when I look at it, what you want is
established product market set. It's like the way that I describe ABM is it's a
B2B revenue
strategy that aligns marketing sales and customer success on a set of target
accounts that reflect
our best fit customers. That's a long definition. But like, it's really clear.
I recently added the
best fit customers component because what we saw are really early stage
organizations
that had not sold any customers that were building a target account list based
on theory.
And ABM is a really, really great way to go after a best fit audience or to
validate
who your audience should be. Because you focus all your time, energy, and
effort on like that
audience. The challenge with that is most people don't like to expend a lot of
money,
time, energy, and effort to validate that an audience wasn't the right fit. So
like,
you should focus on product market fit first, dedicated sales team. So like,
there's a lot of
companies that do founder led sales still that are like, you know, that's five-
ish range.
Typically, sometimes founder led sales probably shouldn't be doing an ABM
approach unless you're
doing it through a podcast because podcast just checks a lot of boxes, a lot of
podcasting.
Typically a more complex sales cycle, that's at least 90 days or kind of the
new
qualification we've added to that is like three departments or more level of
involvement because
that's pretty complex. And then ideally an expansion motion that you can do
post-sale.
And the last component is just a clear market focus. So like, we have some
clients
that are persona specific and like, that's fine. But unless you can, based on
historical data, say,
we work super well with the finance teams and these verticals, like these
industries, I just like
a clear market focus. That's more than just like, we help marketers. But as
like, we help these
kinds of marketers and these specific verticals because you're just going to
get a better program
that's more specific. So those are the criteria that I typically look for when
building an ABM
program. So let's talk about you building your target list as well as the kind
of target market.
The last phase you're talking about there, I feel like this used to be a, I
remember this was
one of the early projects of my career. And it was a very like laborious
project to gather data
across. It was a North American target account list. It was just really hard,
which is why it was a
big project. But I feel like now with all of the AI tools out there, it's
getting, you can do it
more efficiently. I don't know as effectively to be determined, but certainly
more cost effectively.
What's the process you recommend folks go through from both a kind of theory
perspective in building
their target account list? And then of the thousands of tools that we can use
now to build that,
like, do you have any that you recommend or you see being used most often right
now, most effectively?
Yeah, this is not going to be right content focused for the next like five
minutes. This is going to
be a real nerd. That's fine. Let's go. Let's go. I get some hate. Talk to your
finance team.
When we actually look at the idea of best customer, I can guarantee the best
customer
almost nine times out of 10 is the most profitable customer.
Like just because when we look at it from a profitability lens, like let's even
talk about
in a services context, where do we as a services business spend the most time?
It's typically
unhappy that are like not liking our service. So like, I wouldn't qualify that
as best,
but like where do we typically spend sometimes like the least amount of time
is like the happiest clients because they're good. Like they're getting
experience with their thought. There's not all this like internal drama that we
've got to like go
and fix. Like I just looked at like, and I hate to say it this way, but like as
a founder that
now has a team like 15, who do I hear about the least? Like, or when I do hear
about them,
it's in our love proof channel where they're like proof that they love us. Like
, and then I look
at our time tract. It's awful to say, but like, it's not as much time on those
clients because
it's just not as much need to. Like a lot of time on bad clients is spent
internally discussing how
we're going to overcome an objection or a challenge at their experience. Like,
that's still time
tract towards that client. Whereas other clients, she's doing the work. It's
great. It's like profit
is super helpful to understand. And it's not just revenue, which is why I push
back on this,
because there's a lot of companies that I have worked in in the past that sold
really, really,
really high dollar clients that they had never worked with previously.
So they end up being really low profit. Now, it'd be super clear. That's not
always a bad thing.
That could be a strategic move of like, we want to go after more clients like
this. We need to do
it once. We'll like break even on this first client, but then we'll build out
the processes
and operationalize it and then we can replicate that long term. That's great.
That should be an
ABM program though. ABM is like best fit customers, which is highest profit. So
I look at it through
that lens from a finance perspective, then I go to CS and I look at NPS surveys
. And then also,
if you have a product, like you actually use as the product, because then like,
if you could look
at product utilization data, you're like, Oh, shoot, they're happy and they use
it and they're
profitable, which probably got more people like that. And then with sales, you
're going to get
a lot of the data and annex data of who was actually involved in the decision
committee. So you can
actually build out your buying groups. Then marketing can give you market size.
So I actually tell you,
fun fact, our most profitable client is a one of one client that I will never
be able to find
another one of. And I mean that very sincerely. I might be able, but like, I
just, they're a
super weird client. What we do for them, everything is relatively custom, but
like, we just not
to do it. And like, they're just a weird client. So like, even though there are
my most profitable,
from a market size perspective, there's not more like them. So we want to do is
go get more of
our best customers. So that's the thought process is like, start with finance,
back it out to CS,
back it up to sales, and then marketing should provide the validated market
size of an audience
like this. And then you go through that iteration a couple of times. And then
the final thought here,
recently learned this. Some people really hate BlackRock. And I don't have firm
opinions one
way or the other. I don't truly know enough to have an opinion. What I do know
is they did 6.3
billion in profit last year, which is like, all right, so they're doing more
than I am.
Probably could learn a couple things. And the standard P e playbook is identify
, I mean,
yes, it's layoffs. So there is that not a huge fan of that side. But the other
component is
identifying the top 20% of your customer base and then reorienting the business
to go get more of
those. So like, if you think about ABM is going to get the best customer, who's
the top 20% like,
how do we go? We'll get more of those. And like, that should be your ABM
program.
Sounds so obvious when you say it out loud, like how collaborative that process
is. But I think we,
as marketers, myself included, are sometimes we're guilty of saying like, Oh,
we know like,
the market, we're marketing and like, we kind of arbitrarily, or maybe we're
just using marketing
data to create that list. And I love working with finance. I posted on LinkedIn
about this a couple
weeks ago, like, I just think finance, they've got a probably a different
perspective on the data
and kind of a different lens that they're looking at the data through. As well
as I think a lot
of times they have access to data in different benchmarks and different data
sources that you
might not even know are available to you in your business. So I love starting
there. And then
obviously the collaborative process with everyone else involved. I think that's
super, super smart
and great advice. I appreciate it. So you gave the podcast example. I know you
've been talking
about a lot about content led outbound ABM programs. Is podcasting core that or
are there other types
of content you recommend or is podcasting just the first step of that? Can you
talk a little bit about
the role content plays in these ABM programs? So long and short, the whole
thing for scrapping is
just like, start with what you got. So for me, I've been podcasting for like
four years at this point.
I've done like to start scrappy ABM. I was like, I'm going to do a podcast. And
then I've also been
posting on social for like four years at this point. So like, it's very easy
for me to continue to do
that. I have not written a blog for scrappy. It's just not been a thing. There
's a lot of other
things that I haven't done. But for me, these are the easiest things that like
we're engaging for my
audience. So I thought about it from that perspective. I started there. And as
you look at your own
content program, you likely have a lot of content, maybe, I don't know, but
most people have a decent
amount of content. Like they've got their website, they've got probably some
blog content, they've got
newsletters, they may have a couple of videos here and there. So like when I
think about doing a content
let outbound program, what I am seeing for many outbound teams is they just don
't even know what
content they have. Like it's not been well or and it's not purposeful in what
is trying to be
communicated from an outbound perspective. So what most outbound teams are
doing right now
is they look for a couple assets on the website, maybe, and I mean, that's
sincerely like no
shot at outbound teams, but like maybe. But more often than not what they're
doing is they're taking
their list and then just reaching out and saying like, hey, I saw these couple
of cool things about
you on LinkedIn, it looks like you do some volunteering, like good job on
keeping up with an instrument.
I wish I had done that. By the way, you want to buy our stuff. And like, that's
about it. And
what I have found so far, and this, maybe I'm wrong, I'm happy to be wrong so
we can tell
me another way of doing it. But like what I have found is my buyers don't
typically care
that I know that they played guitar. They don't typically. Sometimes they do,
but most
of the time they don't. It's like a party trick almost. It's like, oh, okay,
you did your research,
like check that box. Like I don't actually care. Yeah. But what I found is they
like, like it when
I helped them do their job better. Yes. So from my buyers, they want to, you
know, not get fired.
And they want to make sure that they like can do their job. So what I do is a
lot of educational
content on like how to do the thing, like how do you do ABM and like, what are
the pitfalls to
avoid and like, that's pretty much it. Like I just do a lot of that. But then
when we map that content
to where somebody is in their journey. So like, we do a lot of problem content,
like a lot of
problem content, it's probably 70% of what I create. It's just like here, if
you're thinking
about doing ABM, like here are all the things you're going to experience, it's
going to be hard,
avoid these things. And then like hopefully by default, you get a little bit
better.
We spend probably 25% of our time dedicated to like exactly how tos, like how
to do this
in like really tactical ways. Now all of our content is relatively tactical.
But like I'm
doing a webinar next month that is exactly like step by step by step. How do
you build out a closed
loss program? Like so good. So like that's 25% of our content. And then 5% is
like, hey, have you
considered not doing it yourself and like a team of experts do it. And that's
about it. And honestly,
that's that's our website. So if you go our website, you will not find any
helpful content.
I'm so sorry. Like our website is just like buy our stuff because our
newsletter is nothing but
helpful. Our podcast is nothing but helpful. Our socials are nothing but
helpful. And all of our
webinars are helpful. So like I educate everywhere else. But if you lay them on
the site, it's you
know, buy my stuff website. And that's really it. That's just how I think about
it. It's just like
when you know where the buyers in their journey, then when we go to an outbound
team and say,
hey, can you go out under these people? We are then aligning the reason we're
reaching out with
the information that we're sending them. And I say this a lot. Like people aren
't dumb. Like
if you go to my website and most standard websites, there's a book a call
button at like the top
right hand corner. It's not like it's hidden. Like it's actually really obvious
exactly at a book
a meeting. So what I want to do in my outbound is I want to help people make
the decision with
information that informs them on why they might want a book a meeting. That's
like, if they've
already been on the website, that's like use case content or like case study
content or like how
to content. And then in your email signature, like most people do this already.
But if you're not like
book a meeting with me here, like just the link. So it's always in the
signature. But the main body,
the main purpose of the email is education, it's information and supporting
them do their job better
today. If you do that, like a lot, they'll buy from you eventually or they may
not. And then
sell their friends about it. And like that's cool. There's several things I
love about all this one.
I think kudos to you for the things you're not doing. Like you're just doing
what's natural to
you from a podcasting perspective, like you're not blogging because you're
supposed to be blogging
or because it's not like because that's what marketers do, right? Like you're
doing what's
natural to you, which is a podcast format, and you're making it work for you.
Like so many times
with marketers, we're just like checking, we're just checking boxes. We're like
, Oh, we're supposed to
do two blogs per week. Like, I better go arbitrarily talk about something else
that's vanilla and
uninteresting to our audience. So I think that's awesome. I think the other
thing you said about
marketing the problem, I always say every hero needs a villain. And I think too
many,
this is something we fought a lot throughout the course of our business is like
, we love talking
about the hero ourselves, right? And I love that you even attach that 70% to
the villain, like,
or to the problem, like 70% of what you're doing is talking about the problem.
I think that's
so, so good. And then lastly, I'm not surprised by the success that you're
having
with this content, because it's being useful. I always say like, it's fun and
sexy to talk about,
like the way this thought leadership, like, what does AI mean for the future of
a cow based marketing?
And that content actually doesn't get as engaged as much as something that is
how to use AI to
build your ABM program. Thought leadership is very fun and very, maybe even
easier to do than
something that is useful and helpful. We see this, this is backed by data on
our platform. In fact,
we've got over a million resources inside our library, over 100,000 users using
engaging with
that content. Templates and toolkits, things that people can download, edit,
make copies of,
put to work, be better at their job, like you're saying. It outperforms any
other content format
on our platform by a factor of 3.2. And that is the coaching we're giving our
customers all the
time is give away what you know, make it useful. People are engaging with B2B
content because they've
got an acute problem they're trying to solve in real time, or they're trying to
be better at their
job. And that's it. And I think you nailed that. And I think, again, I'm not
surprised that a
content you're creating is resonating. So kudos to you there. I'm gonna ask you
two last questions
here. One, I'm just kind of curious. So scrappy, you know, you mentioned a lot
of early stage
businesses, we talked about tooling at the start of this. Does a business
eventually outgrow scrappy
ABM or does it eventually, does scrappy ABM like grow into and complement some
of the tooling and
some of the more sophisticated technologies that are out there with ABM
programs?
Yeah, so for everybody's context, I have a 19 month old, so like I'm really in
the throws of
some things right now. But like my daughter did outgrow crawling. So like
inevitably she learned
to walk and then she got like way better at walking and then like she's
learning to run.
So like, as I think about it, scrappy ABM is like crawl stage account based
marketing. It's like
we've got to start somewhere. So like, how do we get movement happening? And
then like, is largely
imperfect. Like, there's a bunch of stuff that's like busted and broken and
duct taped because it's
it's a scrappy approach. But like, we learned how to, how to move. And then we
learned a more
efficient way of moving, which is going from crawling to walking. And then once
you've actually
done some like really solid training, you can run. It's like for context, I'm
not going to like
force forward. I need to lose weight. And I suck it like losing weight. I've
tried for many years.
I had a friend that was like, I sign up for a 5k and gave myself three months
and I didn't
look like an idiot at a 5k. And like, if you run a 5k, everyone their mother's
like, oh, what was
your time? And I was like, I want to say a cool time. So then he started
training for a 5k and he
did his first 5k in like under 30 minutes and like three months of training.
And then it was like,
cool. So like for myself, because I don't look like an idiot. So like, I signed
up for a 5k. So
I have a 5k in like five weeks. So like, I'm having to train. So it'll look
like an idiot. And
like, I can actually do it well. And the other thing is I signed up for 10k
eight weeks after my 5k.
So I have to like, keep getting better because I created specific deadlines and
goals. So like,
that's how you pull this forward. You're telling me, man, so yes, I do think
everyone should out
grow scrappy, be am inevitably like, because I don't want to be scrappy forever
. Like, I'd
like to have some money like to like invest in these really helpful tools like
that. They are
helpful in the right order. It's just not starting. Like, you got to learn to
crawl. Nobody likes
to crawl because crawling sucks. But like, you can't walk me, don't have to
crawl. And I just like
mixed geology's. But we got there. No, I love it. And the famous I binge or I,
you know, the reruns
I watched my house was probably unhealthy is like Shark Tank is always on it.
And Mark Cuban always
says he got a crawl before you ball. So I like, I like that analogy as well.
But I love the order
of operations there. I think that's right. Like, people are like, Oh, we need
ABM and they go and
they buy the Ferrari first, right? And it's like, no, you need to learn how to
be a student driver
that you need to get the used car and then the scrappy like new car that yeah,
so I love that
analogy. So now we're just speaking in full on analogies. So good. All right,
Mason, this is
the last question we ask all of our guests. What's an unpopular opinion that
you have as it pertains
as B2B marketing? Don't ask for the meeting. Hmm. Again, like, people aren't
dumb.
Do you ever ask for the meeting? I lightly seed it. It's like, for example, we
were at B2B
max a couple weeks back and I offered people like this free template. And by
the way, if you
want it to shoot me a message, I'm happy to give it away for free. But then
people actually like
use the template they built at a program and said, Hey, like, if you want to
review it with us,
we're happy to review with you. And I have people to take that phone, which is
awesome.
It's like, I'm gonna call this morning. And she was like, I'm just really
struggling with like,
all this content that we need to create. I was like, I hear you. Side note, we
are a business.
That helps people like you. So like, if there's a budget and like, this is a
priority and like,
this thing is to get done, you just yourself said, you're trying to get as much
as you can. And it's
not a matter of like not knowing how to do it. It is truly time. So like,
people buy from us
because they need more time or they don't know how to do it. And like, you've
invested all the
resources. It's like, if that makes sense, awesome. Like, let's talk about it.
If it doesn't,
that's okay. Like, I'm happy to be helpful. And she was like, I would have no
money. And I was like,
that's cool. No worries. So like, that is, for me, the closest I get to asking
for the meeting,
I don't even view that as like, say like, hey, we selling you, but it's like,
hey,
this like, we do make money at a certain point. And like, this is how. And it's
like, almost a
reminder. So I view that as I'm a pretty generous brand, at least I try to be.
So I do think people
sometimes forget like, oh yeah, like, but our clients that Mason has that like
work with him.
We can help you, but also capitalism. Yeah, like, it's a certain point where,
and the way that I
explain it is like, I will do everything, but with my hands on a keyboard. Like
, that's what you got
to pay me for. So like, if you want to put our hands on keyboard, I'm right
there. Let's do it.
But like, before that, I'm happy to do anything I can to like, help you. So I
try to think of
everything through the lens of ethical selling. So at a certain point, I have
an
obligation because I know what I offer is going to be expeditiously helpful for
them and make their
life better. Like, they will get more value from me than they will pay me. And
as a result,
I have an ethical obligation to help them through sale, selling them. So that
comes from a deep
level of knowing the customer and like their current unique state. So like that
lady for context,
attended a three hour workshop, came to another session the next day, has
followed me on social
and it's commented on all of my stuff, booked a one on one time to review her
template and
ask me for more help. And then at the end of the call, after all of that, I
said,
based on your current challenges, you don't have the time to do it. Like, if
there's a budget,
I would love to help you do this. There's not, I can't do it for free. But like
I'd love to help you. Like, people just don't think about it from that
perspective. So that's
hopefully the helpful lens shift of how deeply I try to help people before I
ask for their money,
because I have that level of conviction. Like, I know we're actually going to
generate your return.
That's the other thing. It's like, don't tell people you can't actually help.
Crazy. That's so good. It reminds me of like, I feel like part of the, or
becoming a trusted
advisor is like the best, like selling motion, right? And that's, that's
exactly what you're doing
throughout that entire process. So that's really good. Mason, if people want to
learn more from you,
or learn more about Scrappy ABM, what's the best way to do that? I took the
baseballs approach.
So if you Google Scrappy ABM, everything is just the same thing. So like, the
podcast,
the newsletter, the website, the LinkedIn, there is a merch store that we're
about to stand out. So
there is like swag to go and buy if you want. So yeah, just Google Scrappy ABM.
If you just
Google those two terms put together. Love it. Well, Mason, thank you so much
for joining us today.
I learned a lot. I'm excited to our watchers and listeners. I'm sure learned a
lot as well.
Until next time, same time, same place. Cheers.
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