Goldenhour Live: Mason Cosby

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Next up, I'd like to welcome Mason Cosby.

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Mason specializes in building scrappy ABM programs on low budgets that drive

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high impact.

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Serving as the marketing lead at numerous boutique bootstrap businesses,

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Mason has sourced over $6 million in the past three years,

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driving an 18x ROI.

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Additionally, Mason is the strategist and producer behind five podcasts that

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consistently rank

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in the top 30 of their category, including mine.

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If you're looking for no-nonsense practical marketing execution that drives

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revenue,

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Mason can guide practical, low-tech ways for growth.

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Thank you so much for being here today.

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Free, always excited to chat with you, and Todd Morgan always pumps time with

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you guys too.

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So thanks for having me.

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Welcome, welcome.

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So I've heard you say there are only three types of podcasts.

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Can you elaborate?

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Yeah, I think a lot of people love to start a podcast and they just kind of

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wander aimlessly.

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For context, that's what I did for about a year with a show called The

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Marketing Ladder.

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Had no strategy, no plan, didn't know what I was doing.

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Just kept doing it because it was fun, but in the context of a B2B tech

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organization

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or someone that's trying to generate a lot of revenue, the goal being fun is

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not necessarily

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something that's the most approved of.

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So there are three core kinds of podcasts that every B2B organization is

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running.

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So one is the content engine.

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That one's fairly self-explanned.

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We're going to dig a little bit more into that.

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The next is account-based podcasting, which is what I thought,

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scrap B2B is going to specialize in.

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But now having blown up in a fair number of shows in the past six months, the

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last one

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is public figure podcasting.

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So building an audience using a podcast channel.

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So those are the three types.

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And if you're not running one of those three types, I challenge you to really

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think through

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the strategy because I don't think there are any other kinds of podcasts.

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So can you elaborate a bit more on the content engine?

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Yeah.

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So the content engine, if you think about how we create really any form of

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content, generally

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speaking, it starts with some kind of subject matter expertise and some form of

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an interview.

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In the context of a content engine, the goal is instead of just doing an

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interview, again,

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I was starting with blog content.

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I would just interview an interview, and that's to me on a Zoom call, press

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record, get the

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transcript.

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And that was it.

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Instead, we uploaded a Spotify and Apple, and it becomes the input device

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through which

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we capture incredible information and then post-produce it.

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So again, think about the context.

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Alex Lieberman is here with StoryArt.

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They do ghost writing for executives, but they have to get the initial input

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information.

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So the podcast becomes your input that then translates into written form

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content.

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It translates into social clips that can then be distributed.

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You can upload it to YouTube.

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YouTube is making a massive play in the podcast space to try to overtake Apple

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and Spotify.

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So huge opportunities there.

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And the other thing is, down the road, if you end up building a great show,

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invite your

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customers on, have them tell their stories.

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That becomes case study content and sales enabling.

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It's a huge opportunity if you view recording a podcast as the input device for

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all post-creation,

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because at some point you've got to capture the information in the first place.

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You're just pressing record, uploading it to Spotify and Apple, and then

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actually building

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an audience around that channel.

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So can you have more than-- can a podcast be more than one?

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Could I have a content engine that's also a public figure podcast?

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It's a great question.

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Inevitably you can, but the challenge with that is I just think that people can

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only

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focus on one thing.

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So if-- prime example, there's a podcast that I run that's most people know is

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with

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J. Swettleson.

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It's called Do This Not That.

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Again, it's consistently been the top 20 for the marketing category and we

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launched it

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in August.

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That is largely a public figure podcast, but out of that we do create content.

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Occasionally, we do actually invite some of his target accounts onto the show.

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So those things are also accomplished, but the main metric of success is

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audience growth.

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The main metric that we say this is how we know we're winning is the growth of

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the audience,

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the engagement of that audience, and then inevitably continuing to build his

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own media

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business, and he runs a media company.

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So again, that's the main metric of success.

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Yes, do we generate sponsorship revenue?

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Absolutely.

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Right.

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Target account relationships.

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Absolutely.

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It has to be created a lot of content out of it.

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Absolutely.

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But when I report to J, whether we're winning or losing, it's audience growth.

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It's nothing else.

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Interesting.

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So how do you choose one of the other?

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Over the other.

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Yeah, I think it's largely dependent on your organization and who you are.

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So we'll start with the easiest to disqualify out of would be public figure

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podcasting.

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We've talked about these shows that are the top five.

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Again, we've got Brie and Brie's got about a quarter million dollars on

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LinkedIn and

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an email that's about 100,000 people.

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You have a great audience that exists.

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We've got Scott, our familiar former CEO of Franklin Covey.

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We've got Daniel Disney with 1.1 million followers on LinkedIn.

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We've got Jay Swettleson that's got two shows and he's got a massive audience

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between

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LinkedIn and email.

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What you're hearing in that is they have existing audiences that they've now

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taken out of sometimes

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owned channels like email, and they're transitioning them into an audience that

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provides greater

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depth.

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So again, I love social.

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I love email.

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But there is something about hearing a person's voice.

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There's something about understanding their even thought process that creates

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audience

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depth that cannot be accomplished through a written format.

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So public figure podcasting in a lot of ways is taking casual consumers and

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turning them

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to deep raving fans.

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So if you don't have the existing casual consumers and audience, public figure

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podcasting is not

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the place to start.

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Whereas it might be the content engine.

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It might be account based podcasting.

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So first and foremost, good to see you Mason.

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Good to see you.

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First thing on this is, I'm going to be off topic.

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When I saw you launch Scrap BBM, I was really hoping it was going to be like a

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mixtape you're

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going to drop.

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Like, that's what I thought.

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I was like, you know, this is about to be heat.

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And I was like, all right, you're starting.

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I'm coming fantastic.

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But let's talk about like the podcast a little bit more.

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How should one go about the production?

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Because I feel like that's probably the huge hang up.

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Like, okay, I got to get a camera, a mic.

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Like I got to go talk to, I don't know what to do.

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So what should you do there?

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Yeah, I think something that's been talked about probably a lot today is

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validation before

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over investment.

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So my first podcast was started with a laptop.

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And that was it.

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So like I had my webcam.

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I had my crappy laptop microphone.

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If you go back and listen to the marketing line of the first 13 episodes, we're

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absolutely

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terrible.

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Like horrible garbage.

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I mean, just, I'm going to go this way.

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It just sounded like it was terrible.

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I didn't know what I was doing.

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It was from Spotify.

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It was just bad.

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But I started to feel the momentum.

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And I put it this way.

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We'll talk about how this turns into account-based podcasting.

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The booking rate on the podcast, on average, is 80%.

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So I, just having a podcast, was able to invite people that would have no

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context for who

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I was.

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And they said yes, four out of five times.

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Yeah.

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Four to five.

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So if we think about, sorry, I get really excited about this.

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But if I...

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That's what we asked you.

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But like, if we think about just other outbound methods, you're lucky for cold

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to get like

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a 5%, like lucky to get 5%.

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If that.

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So we're talking cold outbound to highly influential individuals.

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You're looking at 80% booking rate.

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Yeah.

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So again, starting there, you don't need to overcomplicate it.

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Just start recording.

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And then once you've validated, okay, this is working.

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I'm starting to feel the movement.

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And I want to be clear.

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Early, it's a feeling.

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And largely, it's...

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These people even know that I exist now.

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It's impossible for somebody to buy from you if they don't know that you exist.

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100%.

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So podcasting and account-based podcasting is a way that you can make people

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aware that

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you exist.

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Once you've started to validate it, you can buy more things.

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My first...

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Actually, it's still my microphone.

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I turn it sideways intentionally.

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It's actually a world of Warcraft microphone that was a limited edition that I

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bought on

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a Black Friday.

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It's $200 microphone that I bought for $100.

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Don't ever change it.

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No, of course not.

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But it's a great microphone.

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And I found it on sale.

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So again, it doesn't have to be overly complicated.

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Just get started.

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And I know that that's an advice that a lot of people say.

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But in all seriousness, get started, prove out in the model.

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And then start to invest in the equipment.

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I want to dig a little bit deeper into this.

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I might be butchering this stuff, but I believe 83% of podcasts stop under the

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fifth episode.

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I think it's...

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It's actually worse.

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90% stop after the third episode.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So the things people will hear see this stat and they're like, "Okay, I don't

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want to start

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because I don't want to get into it.

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You do three episodes.

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No in-bounds coming in.

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No one's liking it."

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So we talked about, obviously, you want to validate it.

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We talked about the metrics.

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Let's talk about the mentality of it and the emotional piece of this on how do

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you keep

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going and how do you make sure that you are continuously putting out the

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content?

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Yeah.

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So in the context, I think unless you're someone that has an existing following

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public trigger

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podcasting, though massively beneficial, it's not going to be relevant for most

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people.

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So let's talk about content engine and target account or base account-based

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podcasting.

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Again, in the context of a content engine, the goal is content output.

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So you don't look necessarily early on at how many downloads did I get.

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Do I have a growing audience as the content, honestly, to get started?

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Is it even good?

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Breno's because, again, I'm helping her produce her show.

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I don't actually provide very much feedback until episode 13 because the first

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13 episodes

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largely are you finding a groove.

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Why did you pick 13?

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Generally, that's where most people, that's the second cutoff.

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So 90% will fail after episode three.

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And additional 90% will fall off after episode 13.

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Cool.

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So again, when we look at those metrics, we were joking about it before we

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recorded.

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I hopped up here and started working.

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You said I was gassing everybody up.

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But that's actually my job.

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In the context of helping somebody get a show off the ground, I gassed them up.

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I encouraged them.

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And then when we hit episode 13, they're bought in enough that we can start to

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then optimize

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the content and optimize the show.

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So it's in a content engine, it's content production and how many content

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assets am I

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developing that then reach a wider audience.

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In the context of an account-based podcast, it's target account relationships.

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So prime example, I have a closing call Friday with a target account that came

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on the marketing

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ladder three years ago.

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Like CMO, that would have no context for who I am.

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And it was just a relationship.

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And again, there is fewer ABM programs you can build for $32 a month.

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So in that context, it's the recognition that it's the long-term relationships

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that

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will inevitably pay off.

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I got a quick question.

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So we all know that a lot of podcasts fail.

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We just went over the stats.

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You said you don't give much feedback until after episode 13.

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So for someone who is starting and you're not going over a specific podcast

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right now,

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once you do get to episode 13, what's like some common advice that you

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typically give

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people?

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What's your advantage to the content structure?

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So again, how are you asking questions?

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How do you engage with a guest?

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I remember marketing latter days, I had a guest that talked for an hour and 15

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minutes

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and I asked him three questions.

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I had no idea how to rein in a guest.

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And that's very difficult when you do a guest-based podcast.

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And honestly, please don't go back and listen too much.

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But it wasn't a good episode.

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And I didn't feel comfortable not releasing content because I had a guest and

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took their

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time.

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So I'm way more comfortable saying to a host, like, that episode was not good.

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Here's what you could have done better and we're not going to release this

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episode because

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at the end of the day, the guests will come and go.

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It's your show.

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It continues to build your brand.

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So if you produce bad content and release bad content, that doesn't reflect on

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the guest

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or it reflects on you.

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Yep.

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I know a fairly well-known podcast or that whenever they have a very bad

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episode or a

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guest that, like you said, just rambles or doesn't have a good talk, their go-

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to is

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to say that the files were corrupted.

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I'm putting that in my back pocket.

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I love that.

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Files will cry.

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Look, you can't--

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Sorry.

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It happened.

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Here's the feedback.

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Maybe we'll do it again.

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I love it.

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Well, may I say it was corrupted.

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But 50 things you did wrong.

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If you say that to me after I record some episodes, I'll get it.

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That we know.

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For context, I did accidentally delete an episode of Reese Last Week.

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Yeah, we'll talk about that later.

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I believe you, but we'll talk about it.

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Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Mason.

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You're an icon and this was great chatting with you.

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Thanks for having me.

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Awesome.